Apple's 'Let Loose' iPad Air and iPad Pro event: M4?

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Aurelius

Supreme [H]ardness
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Thought I'd get the ball rolling on a thread for Apple's "Let Loose" event on May 7th. It'll stream at 10AM Eastern here:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1J38FlDKxo

The expectations are that it will almost entirely revolve around iPads... and given that an Apple Pencil is front-and-center in the teaser graphic, I'm pretty sure they're a lock.

The star is likely to be the iPad Pro line. It's poised to get OLED screens (LTPO, even), camera upgrades, a slimmer design... and either an M3 or M4 chip, according to Bloomberg. An M4 would be wild — Apple would not only debut its latest chip in the iPad for the first time in a long while, but that'd mean M3 had just half a year at the top. Realistically, I expect 'just' an M3.

After that, the iPad Air could jump to the M2 and get a 12.9-inch model. That could be the real money maker for Apple — you could get a large iPad without paying through the nose for a Pro. There was talk of a mini-LED screen on the larger Air, but that seems to have been tamped down.

The Magic Keyboard would be redesigned to be more laptop-like, and the Apple Pencil might receive squeeze gestures (say, bringing up a frequent drawing tool shortcut) as well as haptic feedback.

Yes, Apple is late to the OLED tablet party, but let's be honest: for most tablet buyers, this will be their first exposure to it. The real question is whether or not Apple will do anything meaningful to the software at WWDC with iPadOS 18. iPads have great hardware, but it's still hard to use them as heavy-duty production machines outside of certain circumstances. I just want a good around-the-house tablet like the regular Air, but someone who wants to fully replace their laptop will probably want more.
 
Aurelius said:
Thought I'd get the ball rolling on a thread for Apple's "Let Loose" event on May 7th. It'll stream at 10AM Eastern here:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1J38FlDKxo

The expectations are that it will almost entirely revolve around iPads... and given that an Apple Pencil is front-and-center in the teaser graphic, I'm pretty sure they're a lock.

The star is likely to be the iPad Pro line. It's poised to get OLED screens (LTPO, even), camera upgrades, a slimmer design... and either an M3 or M4 chip, according to Bloomberg. An M4 would be wild — Apple would not only debut its latest chip in the iPad for the first time in a long while, but that'd mean M3 had just half a year at the top. Realistically, I expect 'just' an M3.

After that, the iPad Air could jump to the M2 and get a 12.9-inch model. That could be the real money maker for Apple — you could get a large iPad without paying through the nose for a Pro. There was talk of a mini-LED screen on the larger Air, but that seems to have been tamped down.

The Magic Keyboard would be redesigned to be more laptop-like, and the Apple Pencil might receive squeeze gestures (say, bringing up a frequent drawing tool shortcut) as well as haptic feedback.

Yes, Apple is late to the OLED tablet party, but let's be honest: for most tablet buyers, this will be their first exposure to it. The real question is whether or not Apple will do anything meaningful to the software at WWDC with iPadOS 18. iPads have great hardware, but it's still hard to use them as heavy-duty production machines outside of certain circumstances. I just want a good around-the-house tablet like the regular Air, but someone who wants to fully replace their laptop will probably want more.
Click to expand...

We've got the Creative Cloud suite running on the 2022 iPad Air's running the M1 and paired with the pen they do the job pretty damned well.
We use them in the Multimedia and Arts classes, they frequently do projects on them, and they like to use them because everything is contained on the one device.
 
I am looking forward to even my ipad being more powerful than Dukenukem's desktop.

That aside, I am really looking forward to these tablets. I bought a maxed out gen1 iPad Pro in maybe 2018 or 2019 and it has served me extremely well and still runs fast today. My main problem with it is the screen has pretty poor blacks compared to my Macbook Pro, so for a content watching device (I watch a lot of scifi with dark scenes) it is not as good. But I love the spatial audio, the formfactor for consuming content (not creating it, the OS is not there yet for that), and how easy it is to use on planes. An OLED iPad Pro with a faster chip will be a pretty fantastic device for my specific use cases.
 
Gonna say some things that will upset the Apple fanboys. If Apple plans to put an M3 or M4 into their tablets then they should put MacOS. Those chips are far too capable to be saddled by iOS. I also believe Apple isn't selling these M based devices as much as they'd like. If Apple is putting M2's in their $3,500 Vision Pro, and M3's instead of M4's in their latest tablets then they have too many of these chips laying around. They should be putting in the latest chips they have. Also, tablet sales are declining 11% year over year. Tablet OS's are far too restricting compared to laptop OS's, while modern phones are getting bigger to the point that a tablet isn't a plus. Chasing after tablets seems like a foolish endeavor.
 
DukenukemX said:
Gonna say some things that will upset the Apple fanboys. If Apple plans to put an M3 or M4 into their tablets then they should put MacOS. Those chips are far too capable to be saddled by iOS. I also believe Apple isn't selling these M based devices as much as they'd like. If Apple is putting M2's in their $3,500 Vision Pro, and M3's instead of M4's in their latest tablets then they have too many of these chips laying around. They should be putting in the latest chips they have. Also, tablet sales are declining 11% year over year. Tablet OS's are far too restricting compared to laptop OS's, while modern phones are getting bigger to the point that a tablet isn't a plus. Chasing after tablets seems like a foolish endeavor.
Click to expand...
A lot of us would like macOS, but Apple shouldn't put it on any touchscreen device until the OS is truly optimized for it. Part of Windows' problem is that some important elements are still much better-handled by a mouse and keyboard; I don't want to consider a keyboard virtually mandatory for an iPad like it is with a Surface Pro.

The use of the M2 in the Vision Pro likely doesn't have much to do with unsold stock. It's more likely that Apple locked the design in early, and that it was much easier to keep using the M2 than to retool for the M3. Board designs and power budgets are probably very delicate in a headset like that.

Tablet sales declined in part because Apple didn't update the iPad line at all in 2023. The restrictiveness doesn't play into it as much as you'd think. With that said, Apple, Samsung and others need to do a better job of justifying tablets over both large phones and small laptops. I'm hoping that the one-two combo of new iPads in May and iPadOS 18 in September will go some ways toward accomplishing that for Apple.
 
Too much wishful thinking.
M3 in in pro, M2 in air.
The pencil 2 is pretty refined. Squeeze gestures would be awful in something you grip and apply pressure to to use. Frankly, the only news I'd expect for pencil would be the elimination of the 1st gen. Which could be the news if it's possible to allow older tablets to use a pencil 2 via software update. I wasn't expecting any pencil news, but given the graphic I'd agree there is something notable, but I'm going to lean towards something software/firmware/os related rather than actual hardware news. If it is hardware related, I'd argue for dropping the gen 1 and gimped C for a C with tilt and pressure sensitivity. But who knows, it could be that gen 1 goes away, gen2 gets a price reduction and we get a gen3 with new features.
 
raz-0 said:
Too much wishful thinking.
M3 in in pro, M2 in air.
The pencil 2 is pretty refined. Squeeze gestures would be awful in something you grip and apply pressure to to use. Frankly, the only news I'd expect for pencil would be the elimination of the 1st gen. Which could be the news if it's possible to allow older tablets to use a pencil 2 via software update. I wasn't expecting any pencil news, but given the graphic I'd agree there is something notable, but I'm going to lean towards something software/firmware/os related rather than actual hardware news. If it is hardware related, I'd argue for dropping the gen 1 and gimped C for a C with tilt and pressure sensitivity. But who knows, it could be that gen 1 goes away, gen2 gets a price reduction and we get a gen3 with new features.
Click to expand...
Here's how I realistically see it panning out:

- iPad Pro M3 with OLED 11- and 13-inch screens. Slimmer design, longer battery life, possibly a few other upgrades.
- iPad Air M2 with LCD 10.9- and 12.9-inch screens. Much like the existing Air.
- Apple Pencil 3 with squeeze gestures and haptic feedback.
- Pencil 2 goes away; you now have a clearer choice between cost (USB-C Pencil) and raw features (Pencil 3).
- New Magic Keyboard with more laptop-like aluminum frame and trackpad.
- Not expecting new software features before iPadOS 18, but ready to be surprised.
 
Aurelius said:
A lot of us would like macOS, but Apple shouldn't put it on any touchscreen device until the OS is truly optimized for it. Part of Windows' problem is that some important elements are still much better-handled by a mouse and keyboard; I don't want to consider a keyboard virtually mandatory for an iPad like it is with a Surface Pro.
Click to expand...
Apple shouldn't have a problem making a version of MacOS that is touchscreen friendly. MacOS already runs iOS apps, so it's not like iPad owners would lose functionality.
The use of the M2 in the Vision Pro likely doesn't have much to do with unsold stock. It's more likely that Apple locked the design in early, and that it was much easier to keep using the M2 than to retool for the M3. Board designs and power budgets are probably very delicate in a headset like that.
Click to expand...
I really doubt the M3 is much different then the M2. Boards for Macbooks with M2's and M3's look nearly identical. I think Apple has too many M2's laying around.
Tablet sales declined in part because Apple didn't update the iPad line at all in 2023. The restrictiveness doesn't play into it as much as you'd think. With that said, Apple, Samsung and others need to do a better job of justifying tablets over both large phones and small laptops. I'm hoping that the one-two combo of new iPads in May and iPadOS 18 in September will go some ways toward accomplishing that for Apple.
Click to expand...
Tablet sales have been in decline for a while now. A new iPad with a better SoC is not going to change that. Maybe if Apple did put MacOS on the iPads then that's a game changer.
 
DukenukemX said:
Apple shouldn't have a problem making a version of MacOS that is touchscreen friendly. MacOS already runs iOS apps, so it's not like iPad owners would lose functionality.
Click to expand...
It's not so much the challenge as just that it requires a lot of time. A truly touchscreen-native OS needs to be optimized from the tiniest setting through to window management and menus. The rumor goes that Apple will bring touch to Macs in 2026 starting with the MacBook Pro, so I wouldn't expect anything before then.


DukenukemX said:
I really doubt the M3 is much different then the M2. Boards for Macbooks with M2's and M3's look nearly identical. I think Apple has too many M2's laying around.
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In some ways it's not, but it'd still involve new boards and testing cycles. I also suspect Apple is trying to make the most of its 5nm resources at TSMC by gradually ramping down M2 production (since the Vision Pro will presumably still be made even after the Mac lineup moves to M4).


DukenukemX said:
Tablet sales have been in decline for a while now. A new iPad with a better SoC is not going to change that. Maybe if Apple did put MacOS on the iPads then that's a game changer.
Click to expand...
Statista analysts say the tablet market was only really in decline starting in 2022; I suspect the pandemic recovery played a partial role in that (less need for tablets for remote school or work). It's tough to say Apple 'needs' to put macOS on iPads when we don't know how much new hardware will affect sales.
 
DukenukemX said:
Apple shouldn't have a problem making a version of MacOS that is touchscreen friendly. MacOS already runs iOS apps, so it's not like iPad owners would lose functionality.

I really doubt the M3 is much different then the M2. Boards for Macbooks with M2's and M3's look nearly identical. I think Apple has too many M2's laying around.

Tablet sales have been in decline for a while now. A new iPad with a better SoC is not going to change that. Maybe if Apple did put MacOS on the iPads then that's a game changer.
Click to expand...
The M3 is what the M2 was supposed to be before TSMC was forced to push the launch back of the 3N processes. Apple scrambled at the last minute to put a “New” chip in for their expected dates so they didn’t take a huge stock hit.

The M2 is just what little they could back port onto the 4N process. The TSMC delay essentially pushed all Apples products back a year.
 
Aurelius said:
Here's how I realistically see it panning out:

- iPad Pro M3 with OLED 11- and 13-inch screens. Slimmer design, longer battery life, possibly a few other upgrades.
Click to expand...
I don't think you'll see slimmer, battery cell thickness is going to be basically the same, same with PCB and the various components. The most you lose is maybe an integrated digitizer? I know historically apple likes obsoleting accessory compatibility, but there's enough of a headwind in the tablet space, I don't see them screwing everyone over by .7mm or something.

I think it is also possible we see M1, or a new mobile variant of the M1 in all of the non air non pro models. Because pencil.

I will also offer the possibility that pro get m3, air and everything else gets refreshed M1 based SOCs with more AI support. Big pro, pro, air, mini is a very plausible lineup.

Aurelius said:
- iPad Air M2 with LCD 10.9- and 12.9-inch screens. Much like the existing Air.
Click to expand...

That's a coin toss, but I'm leaning towards them keeping 12.9" as a premium "pro" feature.

Aurelius said:
- Apple Pencil 3 with squeeze gestures and haptic feedback.
- Pencil 2 goes away; you now have a clearer choice between cost (USB-C Pencil) and raw features (Pencil 3).
Click to expand...

As I've stated, squeeze haptics on a drawing stylus would be garbage. Like makes it useless levels of garbage. Pencil 3 is possible. They discounted pencil 2 a lot over the last year. So it's either going to be a pencil 3 or pencil2 at a lower price. I suspect regardless of it being v3 or v2, that we may see broader compatibility into the line up for the pencil 2 feature set (i.e. magnetic storage and wireless charging).

Aurelius said:
- New Magic Keyboard with more laptop-like aluminum frame and trackpad.
Click to expand...

Given how absurd the price is on the non-aluminum version, I don't see that being viable. Even with the current version, there's a lot of "well shit, that's more than a laptop" now when you add accessories in.

Aurelius said:
- Not expecting new software features before iPadOS 18, but ready to be surprised.
Click to expand...
I'm expecting a paper launch of everything, and all the new software related things comes with 18 in a reasonably short time frame.. you know, how most apple launches work.
 
raz-0 said:
I don't think you'll see slimmer, battery cell thickness is going to be basically the same, same with PCB and the various components. The most you lose is maybe an integrated digitizer? I know historically apple likes obsoleting accessory compatibility, but there's enough of a headwind in the tablet space, I don't see them screwing everyone over by .7mm or something.

I think it is also possible we see M1, or a new mobile variant of the M1 in all of the non air non pro models. Because pencil.

I will also offer the possibility that pro get m3, air and everything else gets refreshed M1 based SOCs with more AI support. Big pro, pro, air, mini is a very plausible lineup.
Click to expand...
Rumor goes that the switch to OLED will help slim things down. It's supposed to be the first big redesign since 2018, so there's also opportunities to improve the overall profile.

I'd say M1 might come to the base iPad, but no more than that. Apple's done engineering that chip and no doubt wants to move on.


raz-0 said:
That's a coin toss, but I'm leaning towards them keeping 12.9" as a premium "pro" feature.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't think so. Remember, Apple has made a point lately of bringing larger screen sizes to lineups where it previously wasn't an option. iPhone "Plus" models, the 15-inch MacBook Air, you get the idea. And there are lots of people who want a big screen but don't need a 120Hz OLED panel or advanced cameras.



raz-0 said:
Given how absurd the price is on the non-aluminum version, I don't see that being viable. Even with the current version, there's a lot of "well shit, that's more than a laptop" now when you add accessories in.
Click to expand...
I suspect it'll cost the same, but we'll see!
 
DukenukemX said:
Gonna say some things that will upset the Apple fanboys. If Apple plans to put an M3 or M4 into their tablets then they should put MacOS. Those chips are far too capable to be saddled by iOS. I also believe Apple isn't selling these M based devices as much as they'd like. If Apple is putting M2's in their $3,500 Vision Pro, and M3's instead of M4's in their latest tablets then they have too many of these chips laying around. They should be putting in the latest chips they have. Also, tablet sales are declining 11% year over year. Tablet OS's are far too restricting compared to laptop OS's, while modern phones are getting bigger to the point that a tablet isn't a plus. Chasing after tablets seems like a foolish endeavor.
Click to expand...
Everyone has been wanting Apple to put some form of macOS on the iPads for years now. iPads are already way overpowered for 99% of what it can currently do and it's a huge waste of computational resources. iPadOS in its current form is greatly holding back the iPad's potential. They've barely changed it in years and it's feeling incredibly dated and stale.
 
Aurelius said:
Rumor goes that the switch to OLED will help slim things down. It's supposed to be the first big redesign since 2018, so there's also opportunities to improve the overall profile.

I'd say M1 might come to the base iPad, but no more than that. Apple's done engineering that chip and no doubt wants to move on.
Click to expand...
The A18 leaks look pretty solid though, there may not be a reason to put the M1s in the regular iPads with that kicking around. The A18 also gets some basic Ray Tracing support like that found in the M3 which would go a long way towards unifying things the new Metal version they are supposedly launching.

Aurelius said:
I wouldn't think so. Remember, Apple has made a point lately of bringing larger screen sizes to lineups where it previously wasn't an option. iPhone "Plus" models, the 15-inch MacBook Air, you get the idea. And there are lots of people who want a big screen but don't need a 120Hz OLED panel or advanced cameras.
Click to expand...
I like the size of the current Air model, if they make that the baseline I would be happy. it's big enough I can get actual work done on it if I really need to, but it's still small enough that I can throw it in a bag and go.
 
Can we merge threads?

The announcements were pretty much what we expected. I'd say the real sweet spot is the 13-inch iPad Air. Yeah, it's using an M2 rather than an M4, but you can finally do the pseudo-laptop trick without splurging on a Pro (or getting a tiny 11-inch tablet).

Speaking of M4... now that's something. It's not likely going to be a huge leap over the M3, but the fact is that it's here and debuting in an iPad. If iPadOS 18 can make better use of the platform, that'll give Apple an edge. Just waiting for that M4 MacBook Pro to arrive later this year.
 

Apple Introduces the M4 Chip
1715103625389.png

 
Shoganai said:
They do this all the time to pump numbers. They use vague terms or make comparisons to ancient tech nobody cares about. "Faster than the most popular PC chip" is another stupid one. During their last M3 Mac event, they compared it to how much faster it is to their last Intel computer from 5 years ago. Nobody cares about that. They do this because the improvements are so marginal that it would be far less impressive to talk about.
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yup
 
Aurelius said:
The announcements were pretty much what we expected. I'd say the real sweet spot is the 13-inch iPad Air. Yeah, it's using an M2 rather than an M4, but you can finally do the pseudo-laptop trick without splurging on a Pro (or getting a tiny 11-inch tablet).
Click to expand...
Like I said, for them to put M2's and not M3's or even M4's suggest that they have a lot of M2 chips laying around. I'm guessing the M2 was their least popular M-series chip Apple sold.
Speaking of M4... now that's something. It's not likely going to be a huge leap over the M3, but the fact is that it's here and debuting in an iPad. If iPadOS 18 can make better use of the platform, that'll give Apple an edge. Just waiting for that M4 MacBook Pro to arrive later this year.
Click to expand...
Kinda looks like an M3 with focus on AI. Gotta wait for benchmarks.
 
DukenukemX said:
Like I said, for them to put M2's and not M3's or even M4's suggest that they have a lot of M2 chips laying around. I'm guessing the M2 was their least popular M-series chip Apple sold.

Kinda looks like an M3 with focus on AI. Gotta wait for benchmarks.
Click to expand...
I've heard a better explanation: the M3 is based on a stopgap TSMC 3nm node, and both Apple and TSMC want to get off of it as soon as possible. Now that the 'real' 3nm node is here, Apple is transitioning devices to M4 as production volume and roadmaps allow. M4 Macs come later in the year as volume ramps up and higher-end M4 Pro and M4 Max parts become available.

I'm eager to wait for benchmarks as well, but you have to sympathize with Qualcomm a bit. It staked so much of the Snapdragon X Elite's success on theoretically beating Apple's M2 and M3... and now there's an M4. Even if the fight is still relatively close, Apple just robbed Qualcomm of some of its thunder.
 
Aurelius said:
I've heard a better explanation: the M3 is based on a stopgap TSMC 3nm node, and both Apple and TSMC want to get off of it as soon as possible. Now that the 'real' 3nm node is here, Apple is transitioning devices to M4 as production volume and roadmaps allow. M4 Macs come later in the year as volume ramps up and higher-end M4 Pro and M4 Max parts become available.

I'm eager to wait for benchmarks as well, but you have to sympathize with Qualcomm a bit. It staked so much of the Snapdragon X Elite's success on theoretically beating Apple's M2 and M3... and now there's an M4. Even if the fight is still relatively close, Apple just robbed Qualcomm of some of its thunder.
Click to expand...
Yeah... When TSMC says "tell you what, we're only going to charge you for the viable chips that come off this node" you know those yields must have been terrible.
M2 is on a mature node that probably is spitting out well over 80% yields, and the M4s are now on the commercial 3N node, not the proposed 3N that TSMC had to scrap so Apple gets to do the things they wanted to do with M3 but couldn't because of manufacturing woes.

But as far as Qualcomm goes I can't say I sympathize with them so much as I do with their board partners, so far the actual numbers coming from the Snapdragon X chips are nowhere close to what Qualcomm was bragging it was capable of.
https://www.semiaccurate.com/2024/0...g-on-their-snapdragon-x-elite-pro-benchmarks/

"with more Snapdragon X Elite samples in the wild and many more revisions of WART, we got similar reports from OEMs and another Tier 1. Both reported numbers that were nowhere close to what Qualcomm promised. How not close? Above 50% this time but one used the term ‘Celeron’ to describe performance. The claims of better than Apple’s Rosetta 2 x86 emulation are clearly not real on what is probably the release hardware and software. Actually the silicon emulation may be better but everything else is unquestionably not."
 
Aurelius said:
I've heard a better explanation: the M3 is based on a stopgap TSMC 3nm node, and both Apple and TSMC want to get off of it as soon as possible. Now that the 'real' 3nm node is here, Apple is transitioning devices to M4 as production volume and roadmaps allow. M4 Macs come later in the year as volume ramps up and higher-end M4 Pro and M4 Max parts become available.
Click to expand...
Question is why put M-series chips in a tablet? Even in the Macbook Air the M3 gets to 113C, which will thermal throttle in no time. So it seems kinda stupid to put something like an M-series chip in a device that's according to Apple, their thinnest device ever made. As Marques Brownlee puts it, the iPadOS is stupid with an M-series chip. You are limited to iOS apps meant for phones. Just seems like Apple has too many M-series chips and needs to clean their warehouses.


View: https://youtu.be/-T0MGehwWvE?si=7bbGdEyaWGdnAY_Q
I'm eager to wait for benchmarks as well, but you have to sympathize with Qualcomm a bit. It staked so much of the Snapdragon X Elite's success on theoretically beating Apple's M2 and M3... and now there's an M4. Even if the fight is still relatively close, Apple just robbed Qualcomm of some of its thunder.
Click to expand...
Qualcomm is no longer a factor. If the rumors are true then the X Elite and Plus are performing terribly. If anything the M4 is meant to deter consumers from AMD's new 8840HS, which is even better now with built in AI hardware. That and Apple's Mac sales are 1% better than the train wreck that was last years 34% decline year over year. It's funny cause they call it a "significant recovery for the product line". Which was enough for a... "Historic Buyback". Qualcomm was trying to match the success of this from Apple? If anything you're seeing Microsoft and Qualcomm now showing three years worth of effort to match the success of the Apple M1's, but not realizing the M2's and M3's aren't selling well at all. Nobody expected AMD and Intel to match the power efficiency and unplugged performance of Apple's ARM based devices, but they did. Despite Intel's Meteor Lake being technically inferior to Apple, but Intel can't stop selling them.
 
DukenukemX said:
Question is why put M-series chips in a tablet? Even in the Macbook Air the M3 gets to 113C, which will thermal throttle in no time. So it seems kinda stupid to put something like an M-series chip in a device that's according to Apple, their thinnest device ever made. As Marques Brownlee puts it, the iPadOS is stupid with an M-series chip. You are limited to iOS apps meant for phones. Just seems like Apple has too many M-series chips and needs to clean their warehouses.


View: https://youtu.be/-T0MGehwWvE?si=7bbGdEyaWGdnAY_Q

Qualcomm is no longer a factor. If the rumors are true then the X Elite and Plus are performing terribly. If anything the M4 is meant to deter consumers from AMD's new 8840HS, which is even better now with built in AI hardware. That and Apple's Mac sales are 1% better than the train wreck that was last years 34% decline year over year. It's funny cause they call it a "significant recovery for the product line". Which was enough for a... "Historic Buyback". Qualcomm was trying to match the success of this from Apple? If anything you're seeing Microsoft and Qualcomm now showing three years worth of effort to match the success of the Apple M1's, but not realizing the M2's and M3's aren't selling well at all. Nobody expected AMD and Intel to match the power efficiency and unplugged performance of Apple's ARM based devices, but they did. Despite Intel's Meteor Lake being technically inferior to Apple, but Intel can't stop selling them.
Click to expand...


Guess what? I'm still buying a maxed out one.
 
DukenukemX said:
Question is why put M-series chips in a tablet? Even in the Macbook Air the M3 gets to 113C, which will thermal throttle in no time. So it seems kinda stupid to put something like an M-series chip in a device that's according to Apple, their thinnest device ever made. As Marques Brownlee puts it, the iPadOS is stupid with an M-series chip. You are limited to iOS apps meant for phones. Just seems like Apple has too many M-series chips and needs to clean their warehouses.
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The M Series clocks down far better than the A series clocks up.
I’ve got a bunch of the M1 Airs and Pro’s and they do some decent work. Far more capable in the Adobe suites than the A13 and A14 based iPads same for iMovie and GarageBand.
We tested lots of laptop options for our media arts kits before going with the iPads, but for $700 there was nothing out there that was comparable as a solution and certainly nothing as easy to deploy, Wacom pads are expensive and the iPads did a better job on that alone. Most of the sub $700 laptops would fall apart if you looked at them wrong, forget getting tossed into storage bins and hauled around schools by god knows who.

But we’ll see with the M4s, if you own an M1 and you are happy with it there are no real reasons to upgrade to an M2 or an M3. It was like upgrading from an Intel 11th gen to a 12th or a 13’th. Sure there are improvements but really there was no, “I need that upgrade” factor there at all.
 
I ordered a 13” Pro. Two motivations,
- my wife’s 12.9 gen1 is getting longer in tooth and she’ll love the new pencil
- I am super curious to try an OLED that does full screen 1000 nits - not sure I’m aware of any OLED that matches that capability! So, I’m curious.
 
DukenukemX said:
Question is why put M-series chips in a tablet? Even in the Macbook Air the M3 gets to 113C, which will thermal throttle in no time. So it seems kinda stupid to put something like an M-series chip in a device that's according to Apple, their thinnest device ever made. As Marques Brownlee puts it, the iPadOS is stupid with an M-series chip. You are limited to iOS apps meant for phones. Just seems like Apple has too many M-series chips and needs to clean their warehouses.
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What Lakados said — it's fairly easy to tone things down if the regular chip gets too hot, and I'd add that M4 is supposed to be more efficient than M3 (and thus cooler).

There are some uses for M-series chips in iPads, but I'll agree that the software needs to do more to justify it. This is why I think the iPad Air M2 is absolutely fine for most people right now; you only really 'need' the iPad Pro M4 if it's part of an audiovisual editing setup (like that live multicam feature in Final Cut Pro for iPad 2). I don't think iPadOS 18 will suddenly justify all that power, but it should make better use.


DukenukemX said:
Qualcomm is no longer a factor. If the rumors are true then the X Elite and Plus are performing terribly. If anything the M4 is meant to deter consumers from AMD's new 8840HS, which is even better now with built in AI hardware. That and Apple's Mac sales are 1% better than the train wreck that was last years 34% decline year over year. It's funny cause they call it a "significant recovery for the product line". Which was enough for a... "Historic Buyback". Qualcomm was trying to match the success of this from Apple? If anything you're seeing Microsoft and Qualcomm now showing three years worth of effort to match the success of the Apple M1's, but not realizing the M2's and M3's aren't selling well at all. Nobody expected AMD and Intel to match the power efficiency and unplugged performance of Apple's ARM based devices, but they did. Despite Intel's Meteor Lake being technically inferior to Apple, but Intel can't stop selling them.
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Apple's sales were in the pits last year because everyone's were. It was the combination of the spike in pandemic-era computer sales followed by the slump as people returned to the office.

The M2s and M3s are selling just fine. Apple pointed to data showing that the MacBook Air now represented the world's best-selling 13- and 15-inch laptops. I just hope Apple can keep the SoC update intervals shorter than they were between M1 and M3.
 
DukenukemX said:
Question is why put M-series chips in a tablet? Even in the Macbook Air the M3 gets to 113C, which will thermal throttle in no time.
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Fortunately iPad OS does almost nothing to take advantage of M silicon. So it will never throttle because it will be idling....

I would love to see MacOS on these high-end tablets, I just can't see Apple ever allowing their tablets to be ever so slightly open though, it's just not safe FOR THE CHILDREN! (AppStore money is like crack)

Using an iPad on the job-site is like a tease to just how good these things could be but the software selection just isn't there.
 
Lakados said:
The M Series clocks down far better than the A series clocks up.
I’ve got a bunch of the M1 Airs and Pro’s and they do some decent work. Far more capable in the Adobe suites than the A13 and A14 based iPads same for iMovie and GarageBand.
We tested lots of laptop options for our media arts kits before going with the iPads, but for $700 there was nothing out there that was comparable as a solution and certainly nothing as easy to deploy, Wacom pads are expensive and the iPads did a better job on that alone. Most of the sub $700 laptops would fall apart if you looked at them wrong, forget getting tossed into storage bins and hauled around schools by god knows who
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Yeah, Wacom tablets are nice, but with the cheapest Intuos Pro starting at $250 and still needing to provide a computer to connect it to, the iPad is a good value for that use case.
 
Some early Geekbench 6 results for the iPad Pro M4, have apparently slipped out, and if they're reflective of real-world performance... we're in for a treat.

They're not dramatic gains over M3-based Macs, but they're significant... and apparently the higher-spec M4 outruns the base M3 Pro despite fewer cores. So you now have a very thin tablet that can outrun a still very capable laptop.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W19U0YwjMs

The issue, of course, is that you're getting all this performance in an iPad. Great if you live on major creative apps line Final Cut Pro or Procreate, but utter overkill for most people. I'm just hoping this means Apple won't wait until the fall to start bringing the M4 to the Mac. Papa could really use a 14-inch MacBook Pro M4.
 
Aurelius said:
Some early Geekbench 6 results for the iPad Pro M4, have apparently slipped out, and if they're reflective of real-world performance... we're in for a treat.

They're not dramatic gains over M3-based Macs, but they're significant... and apparently the higher-spec M4 outruns the base M3 Pro despite fewer cores. So you now have a very thin tablet that can outrun a still very capable laptop.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W19U0YwjMs

The issue, of course, is that you're getting all this performance in an iPad. Great if you live on major creative apps line Final Cut Pro or Procreate, but utter overkill for most people. I'm just hoping this means Apple won't wait until the fall to start bringing the M4 to the Mac. Papa could really use a 14-inch MacBook Pro M4.
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4.4 Ghz in an iPad? The M3 in a MacBook hits 4.05
 
The reviews are out, and they're pretty much what you'd expect: the iPad Pro hardware is great, but unless you have specific needs (audiovisual editing, mainly) or just want the absolute best, the iPad Air is the better value.

I don't want to assume that Apple will fill in the software piece of the puzzle at WWDC, but I do suspect that on-device AI and other upgrades in iPadOS 18 will do more to justify the M4.
 
DukenukemX said:
Apple's crushing ad isn't going well with the public. Personally I don't see anything wrong here.
https://venturebeat.com/virtual/apple-slammed-by-users-over-ipad-pro-crush-ad-fascist-aesthetic/

View: https://youtu.be/ntjkwIXWtrc?si=U7xpX0J00Jo5EbAY
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I thought it was a creative ad and people are overreacting, but that's just me. People are saying "how can they destroy those beautiful creative tools", but like guys, they're mass produced in a factory, you can get more. They didn't crush a one of a kind Stradivarius violin.
 
I'm due to upgrade my old iPad Air 2, but given my use case, I'm honestly leaning toward a Galaxy Tab at this point, despite my satisfaction with my iPhone. Just wondering if I want to do the whole two-ecosystems thing, but I just think the Galaxy Tab as more value out of the box for what I want to do with it. Anyone else running a Droid and iOS device simultaneously?
 
HockeyJon said:
I'm due to upgrade my old iPad Air 2, but given my use case, I'm honestly leaning toward a Galaxy Tab at this point, despite my satisfaction with my iPhone. Just wondering if I want to do the whole two-ecosystems thing, but I just think the Galaxy Tab as more value out of the box for what I want to do with it. Anyone else running a Droid and iOS device simultaneously?
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Same thinking here, my wife's Air 2 is probably getting replaced for her birthday. I've looked at Android tablets and owned them in the past plus I know they're better hardware and value for the money, but I can never get used to the Android OS/UI. I was looking at the comparison page for ipads (https://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/?modelList=ipad-air-2,ipad-10th-gen,ipad-air-11-m2), I guess I'm leaning toward either the base 10th gen iPad or the new Air. The 10th gen iPad is "only" $350, but the improvements over our Air 2's are pretty limited - mostly it's the new processor, a fresh battery, and the ability to run new iOS versions.
 
HockeyJon said:
I thought it was a creative ad and people are overreacting, but that's just me. People are saying "how can they destroy those beautiful creative tools", but like guys, they're mass produced in a factory, you can get more. They didn't crush a one of a kind Stradivarius violin.
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It's the internet, everyone's self-righteous.

I swear the internet has become a bizarre day time chat show.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
It's the internet, everyone's self-righteous.

I swear the internet has become a bizarre day time chat show.
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Right? Everything is shocking anymore now. And coming from the generation that loves watching tiktokers destroy gaming consoles for likes.
 
HockeyJon said:
I thought it was a creative ad and people are overreacting, but that's just me. People are saying "how can they destroy those beautiful creative tools", but like guys, they're mass produced in a factory, you can get more. They didn't crush a one of a kind Stradivarius violin.
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People are overly sensitive these days. It's honestly becoming absolutely ridiculous.
 
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